LM: You’re listening to Untold Stories of Perth, a special edition produced by the Centre for Stories. In this episode, listeners are cautioned that we will be discussing sensitive topics such as suicide and self-harm. Please call Lifeline on 13 11 14 if you require support. 

BL: I think for me as a teenager, it was fairly lonely. I had family who were not very supportive, the whole community wasn’t supportive, but then as I got into adulthood and I met other gay people, I suddenly realized I wasn’t the only person afflicted like this. Because at that time, gays were being defined as illegal, immoral and unnatural. 

LM: In this episode of Untold Stories, we talk to Brian Lindberg, Graham Douglas and Vivienne Cass, three of the original founders of a group known as CAMP that fought for the rights of the LGBTQ+ community in Perth since its beginnings in the 1970s. Brian and Graham also happen to be lifelong partners who met each other at this time.  

GD: I was lecturing at UWA. Brian was doing a dip-ed and he turned up at a gay bar one night, came up to me and said, ‘Hello, Mr. Douglas’. I said, who are you? And he said, ‘I’m one of your students.’ I said, oh!   

BL: So therein it all started, 52 years ago! 

LM: Long before Brian and Graham fell in love, they had struggled to come to terms with their sexual orientation in what was an extremely conservative environment. When they did eventually come out, they knew they were up against a barrage of discrimination and homophobia, both in politics and in the broader community.  

BL: In my own home, the attitude of parents and relatives was appalling towards gay people. There was no support at school for anybody. A high degree of bullying occurred. I think I stood out as being different, as you do. I was picked on and having had that experience, and then later being a teacher, I was determined that no child was going to experience what I experienced. 

GD: When I came out my initial reaction was extreme anger. I was 28 when I came out, Brian was about 14. I was just angry that there was this infrastructure. There was this group of people I knew nothing about. I didn’t know where they congregated. I didn’t know anything about beats, as they were called. I didn’t know anything. And then to come out and go into a place where there’s dozens of people like me – I was furious about it. And that’s one of the reasons I got initially involved in CAMP. 

LM:  Campaign Against Moral Persecution, otherwise known as CAMP, formed in 1971 with Graham as its first President, Brian as its Treasurer, and Viv Cass, a certified psychologist and later sexual therapist, joining soon after. She would go on to create a counselling service and several support groups for LGBTQ+ people, including one for married couples that had a gay or lesbian partner, and another for teenagers struggling with their identity.     

VC: I think it was about 1974 that I joined the Campaign Against Moral Persecution. When I joined, I went to the first committee meeting and I noticed there was a phone that rang a lot of times and was being answered. And it was clearly people who had problems that they wanted to talk about. Things like, am I gay? What do I do? And so on. Clearly there was a complete lack of places for people to go to; there was no sexual therapy, nothing like that. 

LM: This was beginning to change. It was a time when sexual and social revolution was in the air – even in a city as isolated as Perth, Western Australia. People were beginning to demand equality and liberation for anyone who identified as gay, lesbian, or just felt like they didn’t fit in. 

VC: I had a very strong thing about inequality and unfairness. And so I would get very angry about the way homosexuals were treated, and also it turned out, transgender people later. And there was so much to be changed. Remember, when I first got into the whole scene, it was illegal for men to be gay. Here are all these people like Graham and Brian who you’ve spoken to, and another friend of mine, David, who is now deceased, who was actually gaoled for being gay. You know, David was a very gentle man, a musician, in gaol. So you had all that happening. 

GD: Another reason for CAMP being there in the first place was the state of the law in Western Australia at that stage. We knew we were being extremely ambitious in trying to get law reform, but that was our main agenda. And the law back then in the early seventies for male sodomy was 14 years hard labour with or without whipping. There were not many instances of this law being applied, but there were some. But there were still quite a few arrests. Loitering was the main offense. Usually a fine, occasionally gaol. Trumped up charges against minors and things like that. So we knew it was going to take a long, long time to change a law as extreme as that, down to where there’s no law at all. We did lobby politicians. We got no empathy whatsoever from the right side of politics and not so much either from Labor. 

BL: And there have been very negative comments made in the past and so on. And one I remember was associated with St Mary’s Cathedral. They referred to gays as just a bunch of useless fairies. So, there was a whole group of us, about 10 of us. We all got dressed up in fairy costumes and danced through the cathedral during mass. But yes, the expression on the congregation was quite interesting. 

LM: CAMP was facing an uphill battle to change homophobic attitudes in the community and incredibly backward laws in government. They needed to gather as much support as possible to their cause. On 30 May 1971, a small ad was placed in the Sunday Times newspaper that read: “People who would like information regarding homosexuality and thereby assist in the development of proper social understanding, write to David Widdup – Campaign Against Moral Prejudice.” The group was inundated with telephone calls and letters responding to the ad.  

VC: Some of the stories were just awful. I mean, particularly for young people living in country areas, where the towns they were living in would’ve been tremendously homophobic and families who, the kids knew, would never accept them. I remember one story of a young guy from one of these farming towns and he rang to speak to me, and he was crying, and he said that his father had just found out. He must have told his father that he was attracted to boys and the father had told him to leave home. And so here he was, being forced out of home. So I sort of helped him to find somewhere to live in Perth. 

BL: I was just overwhelmed by the number of people coming out, talking about what they’d experienced and the number of attempted suicides. It was horrific. When you actually meet some of them, then they showed you the scars on their wrists and so on, where they attempted suicide. It’s very emotional, moving stuff. But reaching out to people and then them responding, gave us a lot of strength to keep going and to keep pushing. 

I was really quite amazed because we raised quite a bit of money and we were able to establish club rooms up in West Perth. One of the other things I need to mention too is that I was determined to get gay men out of public toilets. I just thought as meeting places, this is absolutely abhorrent, and something needed to be done. Given that homosexual behaviour was illegal, people had to find clandestine ways to meet and so on. And that’s where people would meet, often in parks, which are quite secluded; but that then becomes highly dangerous because of bashings, murders, extreme violence.  

GD: Because there was quite a bit of harassment by police at these beats. One of the first things CAMP tried to do was get a liaison officer with the WA police department. There was someone we could go to in the police department, who they themselves were police, and try and work things out. 

BL: But once people became comfortable about meeting at the club rooms, meeting other people and relationships were established, and we had counselling services as well, then we were very active in trying to move people politically. And overall I thought we got massive support. 

LM: Soon, CAMP and the other ensuing LGBTQ+ groups that grew from this original organisation were holding a wide array of inclusive community events and public forums, including gay social groups, jazz ballet classes, Pride parades, and even Gay Olympic sporting events. One of the most powerful things that CAMP members could do, as Graham and Viv explain it, was just to simply exist and be themselves in the public eye. 

VC: I mean we were giving so many talks, like sometimes, 2, 3, 4 a week to groups like church groups, community groups, and some professional groups eventually. You’ve got to remember that most of those people did not know another gay person. And when we were just talking, people thought we were just going to give a professional talk about homosexuality, and we would do that for 10 minutes. So, I would usually start, and I’d go and chat about these things. And then we would just drop it into the whole mix that we were both gay and you’d see the visible reaction from the audience, because no way did they have any idea. And of course that was the effect you wanted. You could see people changing. You could actually see yourself changing attitudes through the talk. And then at the end, people would rush up. Even in those religious groups, you’d still get people going, ‘wow’. Because I would say, well, you might have a grandparent who’s gay or lesbian and you don’t know, you might have an uncle who is gay. And then often people come and say, oh, you know what, actually, I do have an uncle who’s never married. He’s got a very good close male friend – I wonder!  

GD: In general, gays were not that visible. In the media, however, they were always portrayed in a light that suited the homophobes. This just reinforced the stereotypes. It was important that there be people in the gay community, in particular from the point of view of CAMP, who were not like the gays portrayed in the media, like what’s his name in, ‘Are You Being Served?’, and all those other British camp comedies. We managed to do this quite well, I think.  

BL: And I remember when we closed the coffee lounge finally, people were lamenting it and I said, no, this is exactly what we wanted. Everybody is now going and being accepted in cafes all around the metropolitan area. This is exactly what it’s meant to do. And we have achieved it. So, you should be proud of that. But one of the great joys I find now is when Graham and I are driving along Cottesloe Beach and we see two young guys holding hands, crossing the crosswalk. And I just thought, well, wow, this is what it was all about.  

VC: CAMP wasn’t just instrumental. The only reason the laws were changed is because CAMP drove it and drove it. We had nothing to fear. We were fearless. You were not going to stop us. We’re fighting for our rights here. They assumed we would be horrified and we would be afraid of being outed, and ashamed and embarrassed. And it didn’t, it wasn’t going to do that. They couldn’t do anything to us. So, there’s absolutely no doubt that Perth or Western Australia is where it is in terms of gay rights because of what CAMP did, and similarly what CAMP groups did in the rest of Australia. Because remember, CAMP was going all around Australia and we were all trying to support each other. 

LM: In December 1989, after years of CAMP lobbying politicians, WA Parliament decriminalised sexual acts between two people of the same sex. Change had finally come.  

Fast forward to October 2020, exactly 50 years on from meeting each other, Brian and Graham were able to tie the knot and get married. Meanwhile, Viv Cass continues to work passionately as a clinical psychologist and is known internationally for her theory of lesbian and gay identity formation. For all three founding members, the journey of being their true selves has been one filled with few regrets. And for any listeners who might still be unsure about their sexuality and sharing that openly with others, Graham and Brian had a few words of wisdom… 

GD: The advice is that you can’t really be yourself as much as you would love to be, unless you do.  

BL: It’s the real you and the world is seeing the real you, and you are part of it and there’s no barriers. And if there are barriers, other people are creating those, and I haven’t got time to deal with those barriers. I’m just enjoying being me. And once you do come out, the burden that is lifted off your shoulders is enormous.  

GD: And almost always, you will find that whilst it was hard to do when you’ve done it, most people are accepting. Most people close to you are accepting and it wasn’t really a bad experience at all. 

BL: And in so many cases, they turn around and say, well, we knew already! 

LM: This podcast was commissioned by the City of Perth and produced by Luisa Mitchell from the Centre for Stories. Editing and soundtrack by Mason Vellios. Script support from Claudia Mancini. Special thanks to Brian Lindberg, Graham Douglas and Vivienne Cass.